The Vineyard Without Wimber


A question to "Nef" who was an assistant to the late John  Wimber during  the early years of the Vineyard movement 3.1.98:  "I  was wondering how you thought Wimber's passing is going to affect the Vineyard  movement?" I have a newspaper article from  the  Orange County  Register from the very earliest days of the  "Vineyard".. (1977 approx.) John is being interviewed and he made an interesting statement.. that the Vineyard would only be around for about fifteen years, after that it would be disbanded.. not a direct quote, but close enough. How  could John have made such a bold statement? Because  during the  "think  tank" years at Fuller Seminary,  when John  Wimber, David  Yonggi Cho, C. Peter Wagner, Bill Bright, Jay  Grimstead, Donald McGavran,  Ralph Winter, Billy Graham,  David  DuPlessis, Robert  Grant, Don Richardson, etc., etc.. were all  there..  and the  "strategies"  and "methodologies" of "taking the  world  for
Jesus"  were  being developed (i.e. Lausanne, GCOWE,  AD2000  and Beyond Movement strategies, the contextualized gospel, the global "harvest"  and "revival" ect).. John Wimber was what I  call  the "restoration implementor".. a restoration theologian who believed and taught that the gifts and offices of the Holy Spirit had been stolen from the church, and that they were going to be  restored.
He  was also a Latter Rain theologian in that he taught that  the Holy Spirit would come "incrementally", perhaps by "visiting your city", or in an "outpouring" "awakening" or "revivalry" and  that the  "Holy Spirit" should "COME!".. that is why they  are  always screaming  for  "MORE!" at the meetings.. they believe  the  Holy Spirit is being poured out and hasn't yet "fully come" as the Bible clearly says he did. Because of this belief  in  receiving "more" of the spirit, they have opened themselves up to receiving another spirit  entirely..  and it is a  powerful  one.. anyway instead of believing that the Holy Spirit has fully come, and is abiding  with us still, that He will never leave nor forsake  us, that He will be with us always, even to the end of the age.. they solicit an "outpouring and visitation" of the spirit that has lead to what they call "restoration" of what was taken from the church..
What's  more,  John taught that the "gifts" would  be "imparted" through  the  laying on of hands, and the "offices"  of prophet, evangelists,  apostle, teacher and healer were going to  be "restored" as well.. John's "assignment" to be the "implementor"  of the restoration of these things to the church. John travelled extensively for Fuller as a "church growth  expert (i.e. cell group theory ala Cho) and taught seminars worldwide to hundreds of thousands of pastors "equipping" them for  ministry.. by  the impartation of the "gifts" and "ministries" of  the  Holy Spirit.. John promoted and taught and trained up hundreds of thousands  of workers globally to take their places in  the new found  "apostolic network".. each submitted under a "mentor" or person above them in a hierarchal authority  structure  - also known  as  "shepherding" doctrine.. he and  Cho also introduced these  ideas  to the church in China.. those attending Vineyard churches these past twenty years have all been "equipped" to "use their  gifts" in the manner prescribed by their doctrine, and under their authority..
I do not believe that John was at odds with the Toronto Vineyard's "outporing" - but I do believe he was at odds with the leadership of it.. and at some level he  was only practicing "damage control" (as usual) because of the negative press.. this was John's habit and history to denounce what he had spawned when the  press got too hot.. remember his denouncement of the  Kansas City Prophets as he stated publically that there were  "excesses" and "abuses" and he was going to "take care" of them? And when he flatly denied that Paul Cain was a manifested Sons of God Theologian,  but so was John.. who clearly can be followed through his years  of  ministry teaching that he himself was experiencing longer  and longer periods of "sinlessness".. I have early newsletters of the Vineyard where the "Kingdonm Now" message is plain and  clear, and the dozens of seminars where John took Holiness teaching, perfection, restoration and dominion theology to thousands of pastors globally.. even tapes of him teaching on Joel's Army..
His  work indeed was done right on time (remember the article?) when "fire" that he had been teaching would "fall".. did  fall.. and  the great end-time "harvest" he had  been  prophesying  for twenty years had indeed apparently "come".. in Toronto.. I believe  there was a power play and a great argument at the flesh level  among the "brethren" at that point and perhaps some  sense of loss for John who had been marginalized.
I have been finding that the organizations that this  movement sets up to accomplish certain goals are only temporary, and it was  right on time that the Vineyard movement was  going to  be phased out.. they never completely disband these organizations.. just take the heart, leadership and strength to another "form" as I call it.. this time it was Toronto and Brownsville.. you will see this happening also right now in Promise Keepers.. John could secretly know  that his position in the hierarchy (as an apostle) was completely assured. He went on from retiring from the Association of the Vineyard Churches to working directly with  Schuller, Cho,  Hayford et al in perfecting their cell model through the post-denominational church movement and "Touch Ministries", the "Antioch Church Network" and much much more.. If he in fact  had opened his eyes at the end and saw what he had  done, I will praise the Lord forever for that.. and that is possible as rumors were  flying that there were "fights" with Paul Cain.. but I do not know if he did repent and forsake the movement.. frankly the strength  that this movement has would quickly "snuff" his life out in a moment without a casual thought if he had abandoned the theology and was going to go public.. His wife who eulogized him, is, it seems, being raised up to take on "John's mantle" (if I was reading the remarks about her correctly at the funeral).. she definiely was a charismatic and compelling  speaker "empowered" beyond  my wildest expectations at her own husband's funeral..  I would watch to see if she is raised up to "finish" John's  work.. just a thought..
The huge end-times harvest, revival and "awakening".. John taught it,  prophesied it, trained up and equipped thousands of workers for it, and  personally laid hands on every  major player to "receive"  the "fire" that fell. It is disputable.. John  carried the restoration theology out of the Fuller "think tank" into  the world at large, and has taken his place now among the "greats" of
apostasy.. having done more single- handedly to bring the restoration and dominion message to the world than any figure in history  since  Wesley..  John was  this  movement's "acceptable anointed  evangelist"  of restoration.. Wagner  has  referred  to Wimber as his "mentor" and I believe that was true.
One  thing about the devil though.. when he's done using you,  he will kill you.. no doubt about that.. the younger, healthier, and able  "apostles of fire".. will carry the "torch" into  the  next
phase - but you can know beyond a shadow of doubt that that was planned  from  the  very beginning, and the next  stages  are  as well.. the  Vineyard churches will continue.. Anahaim Vineyard under  Lance  Pitluck.. but the heart of the  movement is  fully transferred now to the AD2000 and Beyond Movement and the post- denominational church "form".. the apostolic network has come  to your local neighborhood, and the "spiritual warfare network"  has
too  - and don't forget your local pastors association.. that is also a part of the whole.. the countdown is on to take "dominion" for Christ before 2000.. those not wanting to "enter into" their apostate  "kingdom"  are being scheduled as I write, to  be "removed"..  not bloodlessly.. watch the mail for the more  militant aspect (Joel's Army) to be manifesting more and more as they gain consensus politically worldwide." (A report from a former associate of John Wimber)


| Home page |